I had worn basic, no-frills CCM 4Rs before these and I will be going back to a similar model for my next pair when these break down. I had worn them for about 2 months before the top and bottom glove materials started to separate at the sides of the fingers and the stitching on the sides ruptured. The palm material and amount of protection are the only good things about these gloves. You will also be annoyed by the liner that sticks to your hand and gets pulled out with it after you start sweating. Graf makes a lot of great products, but these gloves are not one of those.